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Thread: MB 180a

  1. #1
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    MB 180a

    I'm doing the final touch on my 180a '59 that has been asleep for about 35 years.

    I have a strange problem with engine stalling as soon as I hit the brakes when I drive (no gear, idling). No power brake on this car. It's not related to stop light since I can hit the brakes when the car is still without any problems.

    Carburator is not completely adjusted yet, but the engine runs ok in all other aspects.

    Can the carburator have any mechanics for going downhill?

    Any guess is most welcome!
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

  2. #2
    Administrator JimVillers's Avatar
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    Re: MB 180a

    Joakim ..... Do I understand that the engine will stall with the car standing still and you just applying the brake? If so, look at the coil voltage when the brake lights come on. Loss of voltage may lead to loss of spark.
    Jim Villers
    1961 190SL, 230SL 5-speed, MGB 5-speed, Boxster 'S'; Porsche 356C; 1967 Porsche 911; 1950 Jeep CJ3A; 1958 190SL "Frosty"

  3. #3
    Administrator wpuryear's Avatar
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    Re: MB 180a

    If it's not a problem when standing still, could fuel level in the carburetor bowls be very low and affected by inertia on braking ?

    Walt

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    Re: MB 180a

    Jim, it's only when I'm driving and the car. I pull down the clutch, no gas and as soon as I hit the brakes the engine stops (engine does not stall if I brake very very carefully though).

    Walt, yes, could be. I wonder how I could diagnose this...
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

  5. #5
    Administrator wpuryear's Avatar
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    Re: MB 180a

    I admit it's a long shot, but remove the bowl cover and see if the level is to spec. It would have to be very low to give your symptoms.

    Walt

  6. #6
    Administrator JimVillers's Avatar
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    Re: MB 180a

    Another long shot, wiggle the wires to the distributor and coil; perhaps one is loose or broken so that it moves slightly on braking.
    Jim Villers
    1961 190SL, 230SL 5-speed, MGB 5-speed, Boxster 'S'; Porsche 356C; 1967 Porsche 911; 1950 Jeep CJ3A; 1958 190SL "Frosty"

  7. #7
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    Re: MB 180a

    Thanks for the help! I've checked all the cables, for now I concentrate on the carb! Will try to figure out what the correct fuel level should be and how to measure and adjust it! Thanks again!
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

  8. #8
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    Re: MB 180a

    I found the information about fuel level in the workshop manual and measured it. Correct level should be 16-20mm and mine was about 17mm.

    I think I've found the real problem though! I noticed that the clutch took too low so I tried to adjust it. When I released the spring near the adjustment screw, to be able to work more easily, I noticed that the fork was completely loose. The spring at the fork inside the clutch must be missing!
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

  9. #9
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    Re: MB 180a

    Do not forget that the brake booster is driven by engine vacuum. If the booster leaks, you loose the vacuum, at least in part, of the rear carburetor. I had a similar problem with a slight vacuum leak that interfered with idle speed; engine just died when I put on the brakes.
    Last edited by Jack English; 09-11-2017 at 12:02 AM. Reason: spelung arrer
    Jack English
    1960 #15229 Since 1972
    1971 MBZ 300SEL 6.3 Since 1983
    1999 MBZ 430E Factory Delivery

  10. #10
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    Re: MB 180a

    Thanks, the car doesn't have a brake booster though

    And it looks like I misunderstood the clutch; there are no spring inside the clutch at the fort, the clutch moves back by all the springs on the pressure plate (of course...). Looks like the clutch got stucked when I pressed it hard to the floor. Well, well, I need to replace the seal (or whatever it is) between the clutch and engine because of leakage anyway.
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

  11. #11
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    Re: MB 180a

    I started to remove the clutch/transmission yesterday and will complete it today. My theory just now is that the clutch wasn't stuck. I think the fork was unhooked or loosened when I was trying to adjust the clutch (I removed the spring to work easier).

    So, can the fork be unhooked or loosened? Is that an indication that some parts are worn out? Someone told me that this can happen if the clutch disc is very worn.
    Last edited by Joakim; 09-11-2017 at 06:34 AM.
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

  12. #12
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    Re: MB 180a

    This car is not easy to work with because previous owner had some cheap mechanics working on it that apparently didn't know the car and didn't own a workshop manual. He sold it because they couldn't make it run...

    Well, nothing visibly wrong with the fork or the release bearing. BUT, the clutch disc seems to be put the wrong way!

    The disc is thicker in the middle on the other side, the side that should go against the release bearing, and that might make the clutch to not be released until very late when the fork arm is pressed. That could explain why I perceived that the fork was loose; I could push it by hand easily nearly to the end but not exactly all the way. Probably, the clutch worked with the last 10mm pushed by the pedal.

    Another peculiar thing is that the disc looked nearly new and was about 11mm thick released. Workshop manual says 10.3mm +-3mm when new.

    I damaged the cover to the pilot bearing slightly, guess I didn't manage to pull the clutch/transmission straight out from the engine. Is that cover critical?
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

  13. #13
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    Re: MB 180a

    It turned out that the clutch problem was that the pressure plate was not adjusted. The levers must be at a 17.8mm distance from the pressure plate (if flywheel and pressure plate is not worn). I adjusted this and put everything together, now the clutch seems to be normal (haven't started the car yet, did some other stuff also that I need to finish).
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

  14. #14
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    Re: MB 180a

    I just found out that the chain tensioner is faulty. I had the head off and when I put everything together again the chain tensioner wouldn't stiffen after bleeding.

    Just a thought: could the engine stalling have something to do with this? What happens inside the engine when the car is breaking?
    Joakim Nilsson
    Sweden
    '56 190SL, chassi # 6501491, DB180, red interior
    '57 220S cabriolet
    '59 180a DB350

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