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Thread: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

  1. #16
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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    Itís just that I have never seen anything other than natural aluminum on a 190sl. Iím always open to being proven wrong.

    Really appreciate the work youíre doing on providing a replacement part.

    Walt

    Edit: Now I've seen one.
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  2. #17
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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    I think four things make this difficult to nail down 1) The delicate nature of the yellow finish - doesnít last long and many originals will show very little evidence 2) different materials used for the housings and not sure what material had what finish 3) The extra step of getting the finish on the housing versus leaving natural 4) Mercedes was in a time of recovery and changes were a plenty during this time. Unlike the pagoda, factory literature was more sparse and not as detailed.

    I think it can be proven that at least some cars had this housing color, just not sure if it was all or some, early or late. I suppose you could make it a customer preference. The color is also reversible meaning that it can be added or removed at a later date given that the new valve can be disassembled without damage. Any more input on this subject is warmly welcomed.

    As a note: I have a 220SE coupe and like many of you, my valve leaks causing poor idle. So I have skin in this game as well.

  3. #18
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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    My housing is unmolested and still have the yellow/goldish finish. I think with the age the color got darker and looks more on the brown side.
    Most of the times, during restoration or rebuilding, the housing is media blast and left natural aluminum color, looks nice, but not original.
    The finish could be a chromate bath that is used to protect the bare aluminum. Some carburetors shops use similar chemical to stain and protect the aluminum parts, but is more yellow than my housing.
    Would be interesting to compare with the color of the NOS housing
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    I'm trying to reconstruct my poppet valve as the original with the steel cable, does anybody knows the total length of the valve and the distance from rubber to rubber?
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    Thanks
    Marco

  4. #19
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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    Yes, I think we have determined that the yellow tint did exist. Now whether every housing had that color, not sure. Most people are not aware that there were at least three different materials used for these housings and I have several examples of each. The most common is the light aluminum-ish material and pretty sure that almost always had the yellow tint. Then there are two other materials that are significantly heavier, but yet have the exact same design. The casting numbers on the insides are quite different for the two different materials, but both have the "ATE" logo. The light material has a smooth texture whereas the heavier ones have slightly heavier texture.

    I have access to a NOS housing that has never been installed. That is what I am using to match the color of the housings I am working with. I do not know exactly what process was used originally, but I am able to zinc plate these and apply a yellow chromate to achieve a finish very close to the NOS part. I have a DIY zinc plating kit and am able to tweak the look as needed. Not something a plating shop can do.

    The valve I am producing is quite different from the original design and does not use the flexible cable feature. There is no adjustment and is a simpler design. It does require however that the housing be sent in as a core as it has to be modified slightly to fit the new valve design. As mentioned, the new design uses a teflon "cone" seal which almost bullet proof. Still working on tying up all the loose ends, but should be ready soon.

  5. #20
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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    To answer the question about the spacing, it varies a bit depending on whose valve it is. It is not a critical dimension but should be somewhere between 13mm and 15mm. That is the dimension between the two rubber seal faces. That is the spec I have seen.

  6. #21
    Administrator wpuryear's Avatar
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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    Rather than trying to plate aluminum a better method might be to have the parts anodized to whatever color you want.

    Walt

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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    The issue I have run across with anodizing is that you need a large batch size. It is not an expensive process, just most vendors I ever found want large quantities. If anyone knows of a vendor who does small batches, please let me know. The zinc kit I have is perfect for doing very small quantities. If I am doing a large project and have a fair amount of plating, I do send that to the platers. But if it just a handful, I can do that for close to nothing with the kit. I have the chromates for doing black, clear ( slight blue tint) and yellow.

    Wallace

  8. #23
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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    Wallace, thank you for the dimension information, I think is a quite critical dimension to permit to seal both side, specially if the 2 disc are connected in a rigid way,that is why they used a flexible cable I believe.
    Can you post a picture of the NOS valve to compare the coloration?
    The color was not from electric plating, that is why is not very durable. I don't understand why ATE was treating only the valve housing.
    Marco

  9. #24
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    Re: Any Poppet Valve removal advice?

    I will try to get a picture, but it won't show up well in a picture. The NOS part is electroplated, I just don't know if it was CAD or zinc. It has the signature rainbow as most zinc or CAD plating does. It is not a solid color like anodizing would be. Being NOS, it was made several years later than the original parts and therefore is not necessarily the same as the first parts made. I agree, I have no idea what the original finish was and cannot duplicate what I don't know. But I do know what a factory replacement part looks like, and that is what I am going for. I would assume that would be acceptable to most judges.

    The flexible connector is there to allow the small atmospheric seal to lay flat on the seat regardless of the angle that the larger vacuum seal is. When the diaphragm pushes and releases the valve, it is NOT well supported and can be at an angle. If it had a rigid shaft, the small seal would not lay flat and therefore would leak. That is why it needs to pivot. The only two constraints on that dimensions are 1) the smaller seal cannot bottom out the spring (just below the air filter) when fully open 2) The larger seal has to separate from the diaphragm when the small valve is closed. Other than that, it does not matter. If the dimension is too long, yes you will run into those two problems. Attached is a drawing I have had that shows the flexible design. Again, there are different mfgs for this, and I would suggest you get back to whomever you bought it from.

    My new design is not adjustable and has a rigid shaft, so there is no guesswork. The small seal pivots and can seal at various angles.
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